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25
Years watching leaders
 Mike
King just celebrated his 25th year
with Ogilvy & Mather. His current job is O&M's Regional
Director People Development EAME, and as well as being responsible
for developing the leaders of tomorrow, he's also rubbed shoulders
with a few of the industry's best in his time. So we asked him
some easy questions like, 'what makes a leader, and can anybody
learn?' |
Mike, you must have joined O&M sometime
in 1977?
Yes, I think I'm Ogilvy Europe's oldest graduate trainee! Certainly
the UK's. I came up from Southampton University [Modern History,
Politics and Philosophy] straight into the world of account management.
I started as an Account Executive and worked on Ford, Shell, Unilever,
Avon Cosmetics, Rowntree and Compaq. In fact, we helped to launch
Compaq Computers in the UK. During the early and mid eighties I
worked on the Shell Corporate campaign, Kraft General Foods (Maxwell
House Coffee) American Express, Electrolux, Phillips Consumer Electronics
and much more.
Talking of Compaq, just as an aside, I happen to know that you were
one of the few people John Cleese would work with at the time?
 |
John certainly had
a reputation for being very particular about who he worked with.
He chose to work with one or two people who, for whatever reason,
allowed him to concentrate on getting the best out of himself,
creatively. There were two of us from the agency, myself and
a |
brilliant copywriter - turned - author, Indra Sinha
who worked with John back then.
So you've seen leadership in many contexts.
What leadership characteristics would you say have made the biggest
impression on you over the years?
The first things that pour through the mind are all the classic
answers. A clear vision of the future. The ability to describe a
better place, to set ambitious goals like
the famous BHAG [pronounced 'bee hag'] - Big Hairy Audacious Goal.
But in the end I think the things that have really struck me are
the much more personal aspects of leadership. A business is not
just a business. It is a huge, huge chunk of most people's lives.
So I value that special characteristic of being able to celebrate
just working together and going somewhere together - that's quite
something in a leader. Then there's the unusual ability to focus
upon individuals in
a way that makes them feel the most important person in the world
at that moment. It seems to go along with
a person's ability to demonstrate vulnerability.
These leaders, despite being very senior people,
often very highly paid and in powerful positions,
have a considerable degree of humility about them. A wickedly colourful
but generous sense of humour has also been a strong characteristic
of many of the leaders that I've admired. Such people have the ability
to laugh at themselves, to admit that they are wrong and to be self-effacing.
They seem to have real humanity and a great sense of proportion.
Also there's the ability to know when to lead and
whento follow, when to be clear about direction and guidance and
when to take a back seat and allow someone else to show initiative.
The ability to listen ranks high, to listen, to watch, to admire,
to feed back,
to stand up for and represent your people, and to celebrate success.
Lastly, the characteristic that I think appears most valuable in
leadership, is the ability to prioritise. To truly focus on the
important things, the things that will really make a difference,
as opposed to diversifying and running round like a headless chicken
and being involved in all sorts of things that are not actually
that important. For me, those are the characteristics I've noticed
in the leaders that
have made the biggest impression.
In recent years you've been responsible for
finding, cultivating and developing leaders. Just how much 'leadership
quality' do you think someone can learn - as opposed to having that
quality inherent in their personality?
What has surprised me most about my time - as you say - 'finding,
cultivating and developing leaders', is that I've been permanently
surprised. Some of the most unlikely people have turned out to be
the strongest leaders. So much of this is an issue of culture, the
culture of the country, the culture of the particular office and so
on. But some of the most unlikely people have become a huge success
as a leader because of a sense of humour, their strength of character,
fortitude and compassion. It's not just their visionary ability, although
clearly that's important, but its all of those other things that I
spoke about before; it's the way they bring together a special combination
of personal characteristics that makes them great leaders.
Sometimes this happy conjunction of characteristics seems to work
for just a period of time, perhaps not forever. Sometimes it all comes
together, into sharp focus, like a magical photograph or kaleidoscope.
People follow them because they inspire and they shine, and for that
time they are the brightest star in the sky.
Can these qualities be learned? Are they inherent? I don't think there's
any simple answer. I've read all sorts of theories and points of view
on this. My own view is that many more people than you think have
many of the qualities inside them that make a great leader. People
are sometimes just not aware of these qualities in themselves and
the qualities need to be uncovered and shown to them. Others are extremely
successful and don't know why they are successful. They don't know
why they inspire and motivate people. I think it may have been Michelangelo
who talked about chipping away at the marble to uncover the statue
beneath. I see my job of development that way, chipping away at the
marble, the work of art being there all the time. And I think that's
really what it is. Very often these qualities are simply there. People
can learn a leadership skill, of course they can. But often it's simply
about taking what's there, bringing it to the fore, magnifying it
and then helping them recognise exactly what it is, so that they can
put it to use more often.
One terrific example is Aytul Gulçelik. Aytul is Head of Country
for Ogilvy Turkey; a most extraordinary woman, one of the most able
of our leaders. She's only in her forties. She worked for Ogilvy in
the 1980s and left to start her own company. She grew it, and we bought
it and got her back along with her excellent partners.
Shortly after her return to Ogilvy, Turkey went into a big downward
spiral with the collapse of a number of banks that year. During that
time she was trying to establish herself as leader of the company,
weld the two entities into one company and one culture, move office
from one part of Istanbul to another, and hold all her clients together.
She did all of that, but at enormous personal cost. Despite all that
she wound up as Turkish Business Woman of the Year! Aytul is not someone
who throws herself into the limelight, she's a fervent leader, she
polishes, promotes and she coaches her own people beautifully. And
she never takes the glory
for herself.
A fascinating thing happened when we invited Aytul on to the Senior
Management Programme and it taught me a lot. We thought her joining
the SMP would be a vital part of her 're-induction' to the company
as a whole, that it would give her a peer group of people on whom
she could lean and share experiences at a difficult time in her country's
development. Whilst some of that was the case, we found that others
learned far more from Aytul than we ever imagined would be the case.
When you provide a programme for aspiring
leaders, like the SMP, what elements do you include that are essential
to leadership development?
My priority is to get a group together who recognise themselves as
peers. Through time and continuity
they learn to trust each other and learn from each
other. The idea is that they'll share their experiences
and become each other's coaches and mentors thereafter. In my experience
of leadership programmes, people are far more likely to learn more
from each other than from an outside tutor. In this case the tutor
is the catalyst. He or she offers experience, insight and facilitation,
but I believe the real learning comes from
a shared experience and the reflection upon what they already know
- or at least have observed but haven't really digested.
There are many great books on leadership, but the only text I give
to everybody to read is 'Wind in the Willows'
by Kenneth Grahame. There you have every leadership style and every
human emotion wrapped up in a brilliant story. It's pure leadership
and it's a spiritual story.
So what I do primarily is to provide a physical, emotional, spiritual,
technical, cultural environment in which a type of 'percolation and
fermentation' can take place for a group of peers.
I know you feel strongly about the
responsibility of leaders to the company's values as being almost
part of the brand stewardship of the company. So what would you say
are the top four values common to the best leaders you've seen?
Well, values are funny things. They are increasingly the only things
that differentiate companies in consumers' minds and in employees'
minds. Often I interview
ex-employees only to discover that the reason they are returning to
Ogilvy is not because of anything that we do differently in terms
of the product (although we do) but because they know our culture
and our values. They know what sort of organisation we are and how
we treat each other. So values are pretty damn important and we guard
them preciously at Ogilvy. It's critical that any leader in our organisation
passionately shares the values of the company. It's vital they role
model them every day, at every level - in a natural - not a heavy
handed, artificial way. It's being congruent with the company values.
| Values … are increasingly the only things
that differentiate companies in consumers' minds … |
The next point is that the leaders that I have
admired
and come to respect are people who have a passionate belief in doing
what they believe to be the right thing. In being absolutely true
to themselves. Now that doesn't always mean that what they do is
the right thing to do, but they believe it absolutely and they pursue
it with all their heart and soul. That gains huge respect from others,
not just me.
As an example, when O&M was taken over by WPP
in the late ‘80s everyone knew Martin [Sorrel] was a
very strong character from his reputation at Saatchis. We'd witnessed
JWT being swallowed up and there
was a great deal of nervousness about our takeover. Some of our
leaders - both this side and the other side of the Atlantic - distinguished
themselves by deserting what they appeared to think a sinking ship.
They took their own golden parachutes to safety and disappeared.
I thought it was a tragic betrayal of those who did
not have a choice to go - and a tragic betrayal of
the company.
Just when we needed leadership most, they went. It's one of the
reasons a lot of people are so loyal to Mike Walsh [Ogilvy's EAME
Chairman]. He could have done the same, but he didn't. And what
a tough period the late eighties and early nineties were. It was
a shake up for the whole industry. Mike stuck around and steered
us through an office move, the shrinking of the ad industry in the
UK (registered IPA members reduced by 30%
over the period), the recession and just generally, a massively
difficult time.
Whenever there have been tough decisions to make he's made them.
They haven't all been popular and certainly not every one of them
has been right. But he's made them on the basis that he believed
them to be right, what needed to be done. So that, in my book,
is a big leadership characteristic - it's integrity.
Another value I'd add to that is a passionate concern
for others. Not just the well being of others, but the development
of others, the growth of others, their success and their personal
fulfilment. You've got to recognise that people spend more than
2/3rds of their waking life at work. It's not just somewhere they
come
to pass the time; it is their life. They need to explore their potential
as much as the leader does. So I mean not just concern, but a passionate
concern for others.
Our ex Vice Chairman, Jane Campbell-Garratt, joined SH Benson (Ogilvy
Benson and Mather) as a junior secretary and eventually became Vice
Chairman. Interestingly, throughout that whole rise, she demonstrated
ambition for her company and for her people, never for herself.
The fact that she rose so
high, through the ranks, was always a surprise for her.
I always thought it was a marvellous comment on
her values.
I think the last of the 4 would be a willingness to take personal
responsibility. Aytul is an example again. Our 360° appraisal
process shows her as one of the most highly rated leaders in the
region. The reason appears to be very much because when things go
right she is absolutely the first person to go out and congratulate
everybody else for how marvellous they were and what
a fantastic job they had done to bring such success to the office.
But when things go badly she is equally the very first person to
say 'this is my responsibility - don't blame my people, I will carry
the can.' That very simple attitude towards success and failure
has gained her the complete devotion of her people. The last thing
you want to do as a leader is point the finger at others when things
go wrong.
So the values are personal congruence [embodying
the company values], integrity, passionate concern
for others and taking personal responsibility.
When you look back over time you
will have seen signals of both forthcoming success and forthcoming
failure in leaders. With the wisdom of hindsight what were the signs?
Well, I must confess, this makes me laugh. If hindsight were of
any use whatsoever, presumably, after a short while, you wouldn't
have problems any more - .But here we are, the human race, at the
beginning of the 21st century... and just look at us.
Having said that, I guess there are one or two
common factors.
And I suppose it's easier to start with the issues of failure. I
think the first sign, is a preoccupation with
self - self pity, self promotion, just 'self'. Self obsession seems
to be a fairly consistent trait of those shooting stars who, whiz
across the firmament in a blaze of
glory only to plop into the ocean somewhere out of sight.
Another common trait appears to be the ability to constantly make
excuses for things that go wrong.
An unwillingness to listen to or accept any sort of
critical feedback is certainly one. Another would be concentrating
purely on short-term objectives rather
than having any long-term vision. There is the obvious one of not
adhering to the values or the vision of the company. A lack of concern
for other people is another. But I'm really re-packaging what I've
said before. But, if you press me those would be the elements that
would stand out as being early warning signs.
Early signs of success are pretty much the reverse
of those. People who are open to ideas, constantly searching, constantly
challenging their own thinking
by asking for feedback, for others' thinking on issues. Another
important trait is an ability to attract and hire great talent and
then a willingness to transfer talent in their organisation; a willingness
to share their own people with other parts of the organisation.
High levels of energy, always working (and playing) hard. Balance
is part of it. You'll notice a lot of fun being had around them
when they are working. I think those are the early signs of people
who are going to do well, going to win allegiance, going to win
the following that will carry
them forward and upward.
Have you seen aspiring leaders make
positive changes in themselves? What were the catalysts for change?
Well I can be quite simple about this - yes, I have seen leaders
make positive changes in themselves. The catalyst has been straight
forward and honest 360° feedback. There has to be a willingness
to receive that feedback and then to act upon it, of course. Proper,
broadly agreed development plans have to be put in place. They have
to be followed through and be measured against specific objectives.
There has to be
a drive for supported guidance, you know, in a very active sense.
It can be from a respected coach or somebody who works as a mentor
on a day to day, week to week, month to month basis.
I really don't have an enormous amount to add to that.
Which leaders have embraced change the best, what did they do?
Well I'm not going to name names but - let me answer this, slightly
different question - what are the characteristics of people who
have embraced change the best and how did they do that? Simply the
ones who were humble, open, honest, eager to learn. There is a terrible
cynicism in much of our Western culture, and in many of our Organisations.
In many senior people there is an astonishing degree of arrogance.
There's some kind of belief that they know everything that there
is to know, accompanied by a cynicism towards anybody who purports
to teach them anything. So I always feel blessed working in developing
markets. Also, the further east you go the better it gets. This
is because there's a much greater willingness to learn; to learn
from history, to learn from older people, to learn from experience.
Simply to learn.
We in the West, seem to have built a culture of youth.
We worship at the table of innovation and inspiration
as opposed to any form of reflective consideration
or acquired wisdom. Those who know the value of acquired wisdom
are those who are likely to come with an open mind and an open heart
- and open eyes and ears. In some instances the people who have
embraced change the best are the people who came thinking they were
hopeless leaders, who were staggered and wonderfully surprised by
the 360 feedback that tells them that they are excellent. To embrace
change you have to come with an open mind and an open heart.
You have to able to listen and watch and try new things. They are
the people who work hard in the service of others, always wanting
to learn, always wanting to understand new ways of doing things,
how to improve, how to do better what they are already doing.
What are three things a leader must
avoid at all cost if he or she wants continued success?
I think the first thing to avoid is just going for the 'popular'
rather than the 'right' course of action. Take the tough decisions.
I think the second thing is to avoid being busy all the time. You
know the Tao of leadership famously says 'great leadership consists
of doing less and being more' and the great leaders that I see in
our organisation are people who can be still. And I think the third
thing is avoid the belief that 'everything depends upon me'. You'd
see a little bit more of Gandhi's 'there go my people, I must follow
them I'm their leader'
What are three things a leader absolutely
must do to succeed?
Well, this sounds like I'm just being flippant here, but I'm going
to make it very simple and say - be still, be seen and be seen to
be still. Of course there are many, many more things, but I think
a leader must be a steady beacon. It does not always require vast
explosions of energy and dashing around. That just makes people
dizzy and nervous. We should place more value on setting aside time
to think. We don't live in an age of particularly 'still' or thoughtful
leaders, you only have to look at Bush and Blair. I wonder what
would happen
if they sat on their hands for a while?
A quiet certainty and a stillness about leadership is something
which very few leaders ever really manage.
If you could choose one personal
lesson from any leader you have had contact with, what would you
want to know how to do?
To prioritise really, really well. I try, but don't succeed
very often. I'll just have to keep trying.
Many of David Ogilvy's values and
management principles seem as vital and pertinent today as they
were 50 years ago. The advice in his books compares very favourably
with modern gurus like Jack Welch. You knew David Ogilvy didn't
you?
My first meeting with David Ogilvy was knocking him
over in the director's toilet at Brettenham House, Ogilvy's London
home before Canary Wharf. I barged in through the heavy, oak panelled
door - there was a double bang - and I realised there was this guy
in red braces lying on the floor. I picked him up, dusted him off
and dived into a cubicle. My second meeting was about three weeks
later sitting in a room with a bunch of youngsters like myself,
watching this amazing man up at the front. I can't say that I could
recall much of his illuminations in that meeting as I went through
it desperately fearing that he might recognise me as the guy who'd
knocked him flat in the toilet.
I joined the agency towards the end of his active career and I saw
him once or twice, met him on a couple of occasions but, sadly,
I can't say that I knew the man well. But you know, everyone at
Ogilvy's feels they know him because he committed himself to writing
so brilliantly about his beliefs. He lives on in the fabric of our
organisation and network. His sayings are on the walls, he's so
much a part of the culture. Those beliefs and values are absolutely
alive today in his widow Herta. She's still an important figure
in our company. And of course in the leadership of Shelly Lazarus
who totally reflects his values and the legacy he handed down. I
see him alive day in, day out in the culture and the people and
leadership of our company.
From his early years you might not
have predicted leadership success - what would you say was his greatest
leadership trait?
It's difficult to pick just one. Probably his obsession with learning.
But then, that was all part of his passion. When you sift through
the folklore, the stories, the bar room banter - and a lot of it
was exaggerated, I'm sure - and his writings and so on - when it's
all collected and collated it shows a man of intense passion. Passion
for life, passion for the company, passion for his people, passion
for the brands that he worked with, passion for consumers, passion
for knowledge, an endless and tireless curiosity for knowledge,
an absolute obsession with learning. Here's a man who worked with
the great George Gallop and he was obsessed with research results,
how you interpreted them and what they tell you about human behaviour,
the relationship with brands, what went on in peoples' minds, in
peoples' lives. And he carried that obsession, that fascination,
that endless and tireless curiosity into every aspect of his work.
Not for nothing did he say 'that we pursue knowledge, the way a
pig pursues truffles'. And if we are a bunch of piggies at Ogilvy
in the way we chase knowledge, then David was an absolute porker.
He pursued and codified knowledge endlessly. There were the numerous
magic lanterns, as they were then called, the endless publications.
That's still part of the culture today; the training and development
of people. It's very much David's legacy to the company. On top
of that there was a fascination with his people and a care, a deep
concern for those people. When Shelly Lazarus, our present CEO,
took over the role, she visited David to ask his advice and guidance.
In that conversation she asked if there were anything that he would
do differently if he had his time over again. And David said, 'I'd
have spent more time on people.' But then he corrected himself and
said, 'No I would have spent all of my time on people.' This care,
this passion for people, for the values of the company, - it all
comes from the man's astonishing passion for life. And you can feel
some of that passion if you go to Chateau Touffou, his home near
Poitiers, in France; it lives there today through his widow Herta.
She's a wonderful woman who loves the company as much as David did.
She perpetuates his ideas and his passion.
Touffou is on the side of a river, a fantastic fairytale castle.
David was larger than life and Touffou is a
visible manifestation of that. You know it was absolutely the right
place for David to live. So I'd have to say - sheer passion for
life, love of life, curiosity and learning and love of people. And
so yes, I witness that every day as part of the company culture.
He has left it in every one
of our hundreds of offices worldwide and it is as loud and clear
today as it was when he was alive, probably more so.
All a bit spiritual eh? But, rock bottom, leadership is all about
spirituality.
Thanks Mike.
Copyright © 2003 Ron Hopkins
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